Responses to Discussion Post Required – Urgent – 12 Hours
Your reply to another student’s post must be at least 200 words, attempt to answer the other student’s post, and include one follow up question for further thought.
Grading Rubric Attached
Abstract
This aim of this discussion is to provide a denotation for rhetoric according to Plato, discuss his reconciliation with Sophistic rhetoric, and consider his views from a Biblical perspective. Because Plato uses the Sophist’s definition of rhetoric as the negative denotation of Philosophy, it is essential to explain Sophists’ rhetoric first. Allowing Plato to have something to refute, and with which to struggle to redefine also puts focus on his motives for doing so. While it is clear that the Sophists’ use of rhetoric was as described as immoral and self-serving, Plato works to capitalize off of the persuasive value of rhetoric while reasoning that the additional focus on the search for truth, its connection to morality, and a foundation of spiritualism better the meaning of rhetoric and allows for a just use of rhetorical practices. Through the use of Socratic discussion, Plato’s dialogue, “Gorgias,” allows his teacher, Socrates, to speak for him. It is through a series of claims made by Socrates that tempt the reader to equate Plato’s efforts with Biblical Truths. Plato’s use of his type of rhetoric, in this case leaves the reader with a series of questions regarding his lack of exact reasoning in his most potent, though emotional claim tied to the preservation of the soul. It is likely to this reader that Plato intended to do so, that is to continue his dialogue by encouraging it to continue and causing it to become a longstanding discussion of Truth.
Sophistic rhetoric dismisses all truth by stating indignantly, “What of you?”; Plato’s philosophical rhetoric searches for Truth while pleading, “Where are you?” Plato warns his readers that rhetoric serves only to cloud our judgment, manipulate our moralistic values, defer our focus away from what is right and just, and ultimately destroy our souls. It is only through the use of rhetoric that is founded in transcendental truth and intended to improve the chances of our salvation that Plato finds value in this systematic use of language that relies heavily on the art of persuasion. Is his preferred method of rhetoric Biblical? Was Plato prepared to discuss and teach Truth comprehensively in the Biblical sense of the word? It is tempting to believe so, but this writer still has questions. Though Plato’s redefined and reconciled use of rhetoric has value in its moralistic and spiritual approach, isn’t it more founded in fear than in love?
Plato fears the power of rhetoric as used by the Sophists. In “Gorgias,” we find that smaller arguments lead to his most passionate, that we must fear for our souls and that rhetoric is the path to our damnation. Plato defines rhetoric per his understanding of how it was used by the Sophists-as a systematic manipulation of beliefs used for personal and political gain, one in which the truth is either absent, or arbitrary, and always considered irrelevant. He viewed rhetoric as the negative denotation of Philosophy, the title of which he wore proudly. Just as the Sophists used rhetoric to suit their preferences, so did Plato by accepting and utilizing its power to change minds. To reconcile with this truth, Plato turns rhetoric’s purpose for use and its relationship to the truth to what he wanted for himself and for the others-the singular goal of saving our souls by teaching us how to govern ourselves so that we could also be better prepared to guide others.
To devalue the Sophist’s manipulation of rhetoric, Plato uses reason and spirituality to criticize it and refuses to categorize it as an art-something that is worthy of and can and should be taught. In Plato’s dialogue, “Gorgias,” he uses a character representing his teacher/mentor, Socrates, to denote rhetoric as sycophancy. “I call this sort of thing flattery, whether in relation to the body or to the soul or to anything else, whenever anyone ministers pleasure without regard for the better and the worse…” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p. 122) “and I say that this sort of thing is a disgrace…because it aims at the pleasant and ignores the best; and I say it is not an art, but a habitude since it has no account to give of the real nature of things it applies, and so cannot tell the cause of any of them. I refuse to give the name of art to anything that is irrational” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p. 98). His explanation of the proper use of rhetoric, however, may not appeal to all and runs the risk of weakening his argument in the mind of his readers, were it not based on such high, moral grounds-an valid emotional appeal, ironically. Plato adamantly prefers philosophy, based on reason and truth to rhetoric, and later claims it “noble -the endeavor that is, to make citizens’ souls as good as possible…whether it proves more or less pleasant to one’s hearers” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p. 123). He is uninterested in whether or not the recipient is flattered, let alone satisfied as long as reason and the truth include themselves with rhetoric as a result of moralistic motivations. If God’s Truth defines faith as the opposite of reason and has no reliance on it, can we explain this part of his argument as Biblical? Or are we to admit that at times we use reason to justify our faith?
Does Plato successfully join faith and reason in his adaptation of rhetoric? For Plato, the concept of reason is attached to transcendental truth, which he claims is vital for a healthy soul, and prevents damnation. He uses logic to prove the soul’s value. Plato argues that the soul is of more considerable significance than the body in that the body’s sole interest is in its earthly gratification (a reasonable argument). In the same dialogue, Socrates states that “Flattery [Sophist rhetoric according to Plato] is for mere gratification and pleasure and not good for the soul” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001,p. 122). the best source of strength is goodness” [not our ability to manipulate others through rhetoric and the ignorance of truth]. “Rhetoric leads to the pursuit of pleasure, which weakens strength. It is only good when it enables just punishment on self or a loved one. It maintains the health of the soul, which is the greatest good” ( Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.80).
Plato reasons here that the soul runs the body and that rhetoric is simply a branch of flattery that is destructive to both. The reference to sacrifice may lead the Christian reader to think of Jesus at this point. He sacrificed his body for our soul. Did Plato know of Jesus’ sacrifice when he wrote these dialogues? Could that have been a Biblical reference when it refers to the New Testament? If history is correct, it cannot. Is it still a Biblical perspective if Biblical knowledge of Jesus’ sacrifice was not available for the writer at the time? Or is it reasonable for us to connect the two? Is this an example of a “transcendental truth” that Plato claims we know before we are born?
Plato’s interest in transcendental truth furthers the temptation to claim a direct correlation between Plato’s view of rhetoric and Biblical teachings. Plato informs us that rhetoric can be mastered and used for his described form of a greater good only when its planted firmly on moral grounds-that is grounds fertilized by our search for Truth as we knew it before we were born. According to Plato, “transcendental truth exists and is accessible to human beings. We can recognize things because we knew them before our birth when our souls were with the divine. We have just forgotten them” ( Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.80). Admittedly this argument relies more heavily on faith than on what we call reason and maybe a more complicated selling point for nonbelievers as it seems to fall back on itself. Does Plato mask this truth through his subtle use of rhetoric? Is the reader too busy keeping score in the verbal boxing matchings of his portrayed Socratic discussion to notice that no reasonable direct evidence is provided that proves we knew more before we were born than we do now? Perhaps some of us just missed those points in our readings, or maybe it calls for a modification of the term “reason” or claim as we use them today?
Plato’s definition of rhetoric and his search for truth and the preservation of the soul is undeniably attached to the fear of damnation and a Philosopher’s mission to save our souls. While this may be considered an admirable feat, is it that much different than a Sophist’s quest to get what he wants for himself and others, or to satiate his appetite and alleviate his fear of losing control of any given situation contextually judicial (but not limited to those in entirety)? Perhaps we should simplify Plato’s message and apply his summative advice to live a just and virtuous life, keep our souls healthy, and remember that all in power are [or at risk of becoming] corrupt, (Bizzell & Herzberg p.138) and that includes ourselves and the potential power that we have over one another. The rest we can leave to God’s word.
References:
Bizzell, P., & Herzberg, B. (2001c). Gorgias. In P. Bizzell & B. Herzberg (Eds.), The
rhetorical tradition: Readings from classical times to the present (2nd ed., pp.
42-44). Boston, MA: Bedford/St. Martin’s.
It seems like Plato wrestled with philosophical issues and how they were intertwined with rhetorical endeavors. He visits this concept more than once and evidence of his struggle, or perhaps lack of intent to reconcile the two completely, is represented in both Gorgias and Phaedrus. In Gorgias there is a category of art that works on the soul and the body and each true art has a counterpart. Some counterparts can act as a false alternative to another, and Plato seems to imply that rhetoric can fall into this category of counterpart, rhetoric being the counterpart of dialectic which he preferred (Kennedy, pg. 37). My attention is drawn to his standards for rhetoric which seem to prioritize virtuous intent of the speaker, proper structure of logic, consideration of the audience, and appeal to the soul. It appears Plato could affirm rhetoric, if used virtuously, as a philosophical tool for leading the soul to truth through knowledge which is organized logically, articulated considerately, and disseminated appropriately rather than a tool of persuasion. He believed that if rhetoric could be used righteously there must be a transcendental knowledge unlike the Sophists who believed only in probable knowledge or what Plato would call, “appearances of truth” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81).
Plato viewed rhetoric not as a politician but as an educator and philosopher (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p. 82). Plato believed that it was not good enough to, “induce belief,” as the Sophists did (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81). He wanted a rhetoric whose discourse was, “analytic, objective, and dialectical” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81). The Rhetorical Tradition elucidates the kind of virtue rhetoric must have by Plato’s standards in the section on Phaedrus, “a kind of persuasion that combats the power of convention and seeks to rise above it, rather than trying to exploit convention so as to satisfy base desires” (p.84). The dialectic style emerges for proper rhetoric where the speaker must base their rhetoric on truth, which is attained through carefully defining terms, bringing their ideas together in an, “organic form,” and with combination of careful thinking and speaking (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.85). Because Plato prefers dialectic to rhetoric, the method for reaching truth cannot be, “a totally autonomous method,” and in this sense cannot, “itself generate truth…but is a necessary pathway to truth” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.86). Plato’s philosophical view of rhetorical methodology was not only concerned with transcendental truth and dialectic but also the relation of speech to the soul and the nature of the soul. In Phaedrus, Socrates explains the function of speech as leading souls by persuasion and states that the rhetorician, “must know the various forms of the soul,” and classify them (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001,p.162). The student of rhetoric must be able to make practical application of this knowledge and have an awareness of the classes speech and how to connect them to certain audiences (Plato, ca 367 B.C.E., p.162). Ultimately Plato could not reconcile the Sophists idea of persuading others with what appeared to be true, he wanted to “clear away the worldly debris that obscured the mind” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81).
I think that his view of rhetoric is more easily reconcilable with a biblical perspective than that of the Sophist. As mentioned above, Plato had this idea of clearing away worldly debris which comes from living a human life with our, “carnality and temporality” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81). We must believe in transcendental truth often by faith which is strengthened by the connection of what Plato would refer to as, our souls and the Divine. I think there is a biblical connection to be taken from his view on artistic counterparts, the idea that human beings find false alternatives for what is truly meant to work on our souls. Plato acknowledges the potential of humans to make mistakes because of what we are, but I don’t think he gives enough credit to what people are able to use scripture to accomplish and overcome. Sometimes that same human nature that draws us closer to death, is what gives the scripture its life and its truth. He thought the nature of the soul should be understood and that the audience must define the class of speech in some way, but the bible has no parameters like this. The bible has been shown to almost every audience from every walk of life, the word has no limitations on who can receive it. My question is how with his preference for dialectic, he could reconcile transcendental truth as not coming from an autonomous source but also as being innate, coming from knowledge obtained before our human existence.
References:
BIZZELL, P. & Herzberg, B. (Eds.). (2001). Rhetorical Tradition: readings from classical times to the present (2nd ed.). Boston, MA: BEDFORD/ST. MARTIN’S.
Kennedy, G. A. (1995). A New History of Classical Rhetoric. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press.
Plato (ca. 365 B.C.E.). Phaedrus. P. Bizzel & B. Herzberg (Eds.), The Rhetorical Tradition (pp. 162). Boston: Bedford/St. Martin’s.
ENGL 570
Discussion Board Grading Rubric
|
Criteria |
Levels of Achievement |
|||||||||
|
Content 70% |
Advanced |
Proficient |
Developing |
Not Present |
Points Earned |
|||||
|
Development |
26 to 28 points Major points are stated clearly and are well-supported. Ideas not only answer prompt but expands it further. The post includes considerations of previous writers and/or ideas. Other writers’ views and ideas are specifically mentioned to provide clarity. Writer presents critical questions for consideration about the reading and/or its connections to other contexts. The thread meets and exceeds the 500-word requirement. All requirements must be met. |
24 to 25 points Major points are answered but may need additional support or clarity to establish clear connections. Ideas answer the prompt but do not expand the discussion further. Other writers are vaguely mentioned, but they are not addressed specifically. Writer presents questions for consideration, but they might need more refinement for further discussion. The thread meets the 500-word requirement. All requirements must be met. |
1 to 23 points Major points may be answered yet lack any support for clarity. Ideas minimally address parts of the prompt and might miss some areas. Other writers are not mentioned. The content of the post is isolated and not contextualized with other readings. Writer presents questions that are already answered by the text, do not prompt further inquiry, or do not connect to the reading itself. The word count requirement is not met. At least one requirement must be met. |
0 points Not present and/or no requirements met. |
||||||
|
Scope |
9 to 10 points The content is specific and manageable, focused on the prompted questions yet accompanied with in-depth support. |
6 to 8 points The content is specific in some areas but might leave some areas broader and in need of further support. |
1 to 5 points The content is too broad, often trying to cover the entirety of a work and not going in-depth with any one topic or theme. |
|||||||
|
Reply |
16 to 18 points The reply answers the original post’s questions written by another student. The reply reveals an understanding of the original posts’ focus and context of the question. One follow-up question provided that builds on original post’s inquiry. The reply meets and exceeds the 200-word requirement. All requirements must be met. |
11 to 15 points The reply answers the original post’s questions written by another student yet it might need some further clarity added. The reply reveals general knowledge of the original post but only summarizes those ideas without connecting them to another question. One follow-up question provided that builds on original post’s inquiry, but the question needs further refinement. The reply meets the 200-word requirement. All requirements must be met. |
1 to 10 points The reply does not attempt to answer the original post’s question presented by another student. The reply minimally connects to the original post’s content. One follow-up question provided that builds on original post’s inquiry, but the question is not asking anything new or more focused. The minimum word count is not met. At least one requirement must be met. |
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Structure 30% |
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Organization |
7 to 8 points Structure presents clear and coherent ideas. While not necessarily presenting individual paragraphs, content has unified parts with clear focus. Transitional wording/phrasing indicates shifts in focus and logical connections between ideas. |
4 to 6 points Structure reflects the prompted questions but may not blend together as one post/focus. Content is generally focused and unified. Some redundancy present, which hinders the flow of ideas. Basic transitions present. |
1 to 3 points Structure not clear or present. No clear order of ideas. Content may address prompt but does not reveal interconnecting ideas blending together for a single focus. Limited to no attempts at transitioning. |
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|
Grammar and Mechanics |
7 to 8 points
The writing reflects grammatical, punctuation, and spelling standards. Language is accurate, appropriate, effective, and reflects graduate level diction. The tone is appropriate and highly effective. |
4 to 6 points
The writing contains some grammatical, punctuation, and / or spelling errors. Language is unclear, awkward or inappropriate in parts. Tone is generally appropriate and moderately effective. |
1 to 3 points The writing contains many grammatical, punctuation and/or spelling errors. Language use is largely inaccurate or inappropriate. The tone is ineffective and/or inappropriate. |
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|
APA Formatting |
7 to 8 points The writing contains some grammatical, punctuation, and / or spelling errors. Language is unclear, |
4 to 6 points
Writing follows most formatting guidelines, but some flaws are detected. Parenthetical and bibliographical source citations are incorrectly formatted or used |
1 to 3 points
Writing lacks many elements of correct formatting. Parenthetical and bibliographical source citations and / or references are not provided. |
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Total |
/50 |
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Instructor’s Comments: |
Page 2 of 4
Abstract
This aim of this discussion is to provide a denotation for rhetoric according to Plato, discuss his reconciliation with Sophistic rhetoric, and consider his views from a Biblical perspective. Because Plato uses the Sophist’s definition of rhetoric as the negative denotation of Philosophy, it is essential to explain Sophists’ rhetoric first. Allowing Plato to have something to refute, and with which to struggle to redefine also puts focus on his motives for doing so. While it is clear that the Sophists’ use of rhetoric was as described as immoral and self-serving, Plato works to capitalize off of the persuasive value of rhetoric while reasoning that the additional focus on the search for truth, its connection to morality, and a foundation of spiritualism better the meaning of rhetoric and allows for a just use of rhetorical practices. Through the use of Socratic discussion, Plato’s dialogue, “Gorgias,” allows his teacher, Socrates, to speak for him. It is through a series of claims made by Socrates that tempt the reader to equate Plato’s efforts with Biblical Truths. Plato’s use of his type of rhetoric, in this case leaves the reader with a series of questions regarding his lack of exact reasoning in his most potent, though emotional claim tied to the preservation of the soul. It is likely to this reader that Plato intended to do so, that is to continue his dialogue by encouraging it to continue and causing it to become a longstanding discussion of Truth.
Sophistic rhetoric dismisses all truth by stating indignantly, “What of you?”; Plato’s philosophical rhetoric searches for Truth while pleading, “Where are you?” Plato warns his readers that rhetoric serves only to cloud our judgment, manipulate our moralistic values, defer our focus away from what is right and just, and ultimately destroy our souls. It is only through the use of rhetoric that is founded in transcendental truth and intended to improve the chances of our salvation that Plato finds value in this systematic use of language that relies heavily on the art of persuasion. Is his preferred method of rhetoric Biblical? Was Plato prepared to discuss and teach Truth comprehensively in the Biblical sense of the word? It is tempting to believe so, but this writer still has questions. Though Plato’s redefined and reconciled use of rhetoric has value in its moralistic and spiritual approach, isn’t it more founded in fear than in love?
Plato fears the power of rhetoric as used by the Sophists. In “Gorgias,” we find that smaller arguments lead to his most passionate, that we must fear for our souls and that rhetoric is the path to our damnation. Plato defines rhetoric per his understanding of how it was used by the Sophists-as a systematic manipulation of beliefs used for personal and political gain, one in which the truth is either absent, or arbitrary, and always considered irrelevant. He viewed rhetoric as the negative denotation of Philosophy, the title of which he wore proudly. Just as the Sophists used rhetoric to suit their preferences, so did Plato by accepting and utilizing its power to change minds. To reconcile with this truth, Plato turns rhetoric’s purpose for use and its relationship to the truth to what he wanted for himself and for the others-the singular goal of saving our souls by teaching us how to govern ourselves so that we could also be better prepared to guide others.
To devalue the Sophist’s manipulation of rhetoric, Plato uses reason and spirituality to criticize it and refuses to categorize it as an art-something that is worthy of and can and should be taught. In Plato’s dialogue, “Gorgias,” he uses a character representing his teacher/mentor, Socrates, to denote rhetoric as sycophancy. “I call this sort of thing flattery, whether in relation to the body or to the soul or to anything else, whenever anyone ministers pleasure without regard for the better and the worse…” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p. 122) “and I say that this sort of thing is a disgrace…because it aims at the pleasant and ignores the best; and I say it is not an art, but a habitude since it has no account to give of the real nature of things it applies, and so cannot tell the cause of any of them. I refuse to give the name of art to anything that is irrational” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p. 98). His explanation of the proper use of rhetoric, however, may not appeal to all and runs the risk of weakening his argument in the mind of his readers, were it not based on such high, moral grounds-an valid emotional appeal, ironically. Plato adamantly prefers philosophy, based on reason and truth to rhetoric, and later claims it “noble -the endeavor that is, to make citizens’ souls as good as possible…whether it proves more or less pleasant to one’s hearers” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p. 123). He is uninterested in whether or not the recipient is flattered, let alone satisfied as long as reason and the truth include themselves with rhetoric as a result of moralistic motivations. If God’s Truth defines faith as the opposite of reason and has no reliance on it, can we explain this part of his argument as Biblical? Or are we to admit that at times we use reason to justify our faith?
Does Plato successfully join faith and reason in his adaptation of rhetoric? For Plato, the concept of reason is attached to transcendental truth, which he claims is vital for a healthy soul, and prevents damnation. He uses logic to prove the soul’s value. Plato argues that the soul is of more considerable significance than the body in that the body’s sole interest is in its earthly gratification (a reasonable argument). In the same dialogue, Socrates states that “Flattery [Sophist rhetoric according to Plato] is for mere gratification and pleasure and not good for the soul” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001,p. 122). the best source of strength is goodness” [not our ability to manipulate others through rhetoric and the ignorance of truth]. “Rhetoric leads to the pursuit of pleasure, which weakens strength. It is only good when it enables just punishment on self or a loved one. It maintains the health of the soul, which is the greatest good” ( Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.80).
Plato reasons here that the soul runs the body and that rhetoric is simply a branch of flattery that is destructive to both. The reference to sacrifice may lead the Christian reader to think of Jesus at this point. He sacrificed his body for our soul. Did Plato know of Jesus’ sacrifice when he wrote these dialogues? Could that have been a Biblical reference when it refers to the New Testament? If history is correct, it cannot. Is it still a Biblical perspective if Biblical knowledge of Jesus’ sacrifice was not available for the writer at the time? Or is it reasonable for us to connect the two? Is this an example of a “transcendental truth” that Plato claims we know before we are born?
Plato’s interest in transcendental truth furthers the temptation to claim a direct correlation between Plato’s view of rhetoric and Biblical teachings. Plato informs us that rhetoric can be mastered and used for his described form of a greater good only when its planted firmly on moral grounds-that is grounds fertilized by our search for Truth as we knew it before we were born. According to Plato, “transcendental truth exists and is accessible to human beings. We can recognize things because we knew them before our birth when our souls were with the divine. We have just forgotten them” ( Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.80). Admittedly this argument relies more heavily on faith than on what we call reason and maybe a more complicated selling point for nonbelievers as it seems to fall back on itself. Does Plato mask this truth through his subtle use of rhetoric? Is the reader too busy keeping score in the verbal boxing matchings of his portrayed Socratic discussion to notice that no reasonable direct evidence is provided that proves we knew more before we were born than we do now? Perhaps some of us just missed those points in our readings, or maybe it calls for a modification of the term “reason” or claim as we use them today?
Plato’s definition of rhetoric and his search for truth and the preservation of the soul is undeniably attached to the fear of damnation and a Philosopher’s mission to save our souls. While this may be considered an admirable feat, is it that much different than a Sophist’s quest to get what he wants for himself and others, or to satiate his appetite and alleviate his fear of losing control of any given situation contextually judicial (but not limited to those in entirety)? Perhaps we should simplify Plato’s message and apply his summative advice to live a just and virtuous life, keep our souls healthy, and remember that all in power are [or at risk of becoming] corrupt, (Bizzell & Herzberg p.138) and that includes ourselves and the potential power that we have over one another. The rest we can leave to God’s word.
References:
Bizzell, P., & Herzberg, B. (2001c). Gorgias. In P. Bizzell & B. Herzberg (Eds.), The
rhetorical tradition: Readings from classical times to the present (2nd ed., pp.
42-44). Boston, MA: Bedford/St. Martin’s.
It seems like Plato wrestled with philosophical issues and how they were intertwined with rhetorical endeavors. He visits this concept more than once and evidence of his struggle, or perhaps lack of intent to reconcile the two completely, is represented in both Gorgias and Phaedrus. In Gorgias there is a category of art that works on the soul and the body and each true art has a counterpart. Some counterparts can act as a false alternative to another, and Plato seems to imply that rhetoric can fall into this category of counterpart, rhetoric being the counterpart of dialectic which he preferred (Kennedy, pg. 37). My attention is drawn to his standards for rhetoric which seem to prioritize virtuous intent of the speaker, proper structure of logic, consideration of the audience, and appeal to the soul. It appears Plato could affirm rhetoric, if used virtuously, as a philosophical tool for leading the soul to truth through knowledge which is organized logically, articulated considerately, and disseminated appropriately rather than a tool of persuasion. He believed that if rhetoric could be used righteously there must be a transcendental knowledge unlike the Sophists who believed only in probable knowledge or what Plato would call, “appearances of truth” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81).
Plato viewed rhetoric not as a politician but as an educator and philosopher (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p. 82). Plato believed that it was not good enough to, “induce belief,” as the Sophists did (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81). He wanted a rhetoric whose discourse was, “analytic, objective, and dialectical” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81). The Rhetorical Tradition elucidates the kind of virtue rhetoric must have by Plato’s standards in the section on Phaedrus, “a kind of persuasion that combats the power of convention and seeks to rise above it, rather than trying to exploit convention so as to satisfy base desires” (p.84). The dialectic style emerges for proper rhetoric where the speaker must base their rhetoric on truth, which is attained through carefully defining terms, bringing their ideas together in an, “organic form,” and with combination of careful thinking and speaking (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.85). Because Plato prefers dialectic to rhetoric, the method for reaching truth cannot be, “a totally autonomous method,” and in this sense cannot, “itself generate truth…but is a necessary pathway to truth” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.86). Plato’s philosophical view of rhetorical methodology was not only concerned with transcendental truth and dialectic but also the relation of speech to the soul and the nature of the soul. In Phaedrus, Socrates explains the function of speech as leading souls by persuasion and states that the rhetorician, “must know the various forms of the soul,” and classify them (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001,p.162). The student of rhetoric must be able to make practical application of this knowledge and have an awareness of the classes speech and how to connect them to certain audiences (Plato, ca 367 B.C.E., p.162). Ultimately Plato could not reconcile the Sophists idea of persuading others with what appeared to be true, he wanted to “clear away the worldly debris that obscured the mind” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81).
I think that his view of rhetoric is more easily reconcilable with a biblical perspective than that of the Sophist. As mentioned above, Plato had this idea of clearing away worldly debris which comes from living a human life with our, “carnality and temporality” (Bizzell & Herzberg, 2001, p.81). We must believe in transcendental truth often by faith which is strengthened by the connection of what Plato would refer to as, our souls and the Divine. I think there is a biblical connection to be taken from his view on artistic counterparts, the idea that human beings find false alternatives for what is truly meant to work on our souls. Plato acknowledges the potential of humans to make mistakes because of what we are, but I don’t think he gives enough credit to what people are able to use scripture to accomplish and overcome. Sometimes that same human nature that draws us closer to death, is what gives the scripture its life and its truth. He thought the nature of the soul should be understood and that the audience must define the class of speech in some way, but the bible has no parameters like this. The bible has been shown to almost every audience from every walk of life, the word has no limitations on who can receive it. My question is how with his preference for dialectic, he could reconcile transcendental truth as not coming from an autonomous source but also as being innate, coming from knowledge obtained before our human existence.
References:
BIZZELL, P. & Herzberg, B. (Eds.). (2001). Rhetorical Tradition: readings from classical times to the present (2nd ed.). Boston, MA: BEDFORD/ST. MARTIN’S.
Kennedy, G. A. (1995). A New History of Classical Rhetoric. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press.
Plato (ca. 365 B.C.E.). Phaedrus. P. Bizzel & B. Herzberg (Eds.), The Rhetorical Tradition (pp. 162). Boston: Bedford/St. Martin’s.
ENGL 570
Discussion Board Grading Rubric
|
Criteria |
Levels of Achievement |
|||||||||
|
Content 70% |
Advanced |
Proficient |
Developing |
Not Present |
Points Earned |
|||||
|
Development |
26 to 28 points Major points are stated clearly and are well-supported. Ideas not only answer prompt but expands it further. The post includes considerations of previous writers and/or ideas. Other writers’ views and ideas are specifically mentioned to provide clarity. Writer presents critical questions for consideration about the reading and/or its connections to other contexts. The thread meets and exceeds the 500-word requirement. All requirements must be met. |
24 to 25 points Major points are answered but may need additional support or clarity to establish clear connections. Ideas answer the prompt but do not expand the discussion further. Other writers are vaguely mentioned, but they are not addressed specifically. Writer presents questions for consideration, but they might need more refinement for further discussion. The thread meets the 500-word requirement. All requirements must be met. |
1 to 23 points Major points may be answered yet lack any support for clarity. Ideas minimally address parts of the prompt and might miss some areas. Other writers are not mentioned. The content of the post is isolated and not contextualized with other readings. Writer presents questions that are already answered by the text, do not prompt further inquiry, or do not connect to the reading itself. The word count requirement is not met. At least one requirement must be met. |
0 points Not present and/or no requirements met. |
||||||
|
Scope |
9 to 10 points The content is specific and manageable, focused on the prompted questions yet accompanied with in-depth support. |
6 to 8 points The content is specific in some areas but might leave some areas broader and in need of further support. |
1 to 5 points The content is too broad, often trying to cover the entirety of a work and not going in-depth with any one topic or theme. |
|||||||
|
Reply |
16 to 18 points The reply answers the original post’s questions written by another student. The reply reveals an understanding of the original posts’ focus and context of the question. One follow-up question provided that builds on original post’s inquiry. The reply meets and exceeds the 200-word requirement. All requirements must be met. |
11 to 15 points The reply answers the original post’s questions written by another student yet it might need some further clarity added. The reply reveals general knowledge of the original post but only summarizes those ideas without connecting them to another question. One follow-up question provided that builds on original post’s inquiry, but the question needs further refinement. The reply meets the 200-word requirement. All requirements must be met. |
1 to 10 points The reply does not attempt to answer the original post’s question presented by another student. The reply minimally connects to the original post’s content. One follow-up question provided that builds on original post’s inquiry, but the question is not asking anything new or more focused. The minimum word count is not met. At least one requirement must be met. |
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Structure 30% |
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Organization |
7 to 8 points Structure presents clear and coherent ideas. While not necessarily presenting individual paragraphs, content has unified parts with clear focus. Transitional wording/phrasing indicates shifts in focus and logical connections between ideas. |
4 to 6 points Structure reflects the prompted questions but may not blend together as one post/focus. Content is generally focused and unified. Some redundancy present, which hinders the flow of ideas. Basic transitions present. |
1 to 3 points Structure not clear or present. No clear order of ideas. Content may address prompt but does not reveal interconnecting ideas blending together for a single focus. Limited to no attempts at transitioning. |
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Grammar and Mechanics |
7 to 8 points
The writing reflects grammatical, punctuation, and spelling standards. Language is accurate, appropriate, effective, and reflects graduate level diction. The tone is appropriate and highly effective. |
4 to 6 points
The writing contains some grammatical, punctuation, and / or spelling errors. Language is unclear, awkward or inappropriate in parts. Tone is generally appropriate and moderately effective. |
1 to 3 points The writing contains many grammatical, punctuation and/or spelling errors. Language use is largely inaccurate or inappropriate. The tone is ineffective and/or inappropriate. |
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APA Formatting |
7 to 8 points The writing contains some grammatical, punctuation, and / or spelling errors. Language is unclear, |
4 to 6 points
Writing follows most formatting guidelines, but some flaws are detected. Parenthetical and bibliographical source citations are incorrectly formatted or used |
1 to 3 points
Writing lacks many elements of correct formatting. Parenthetical and bibliographical source citations and / or references are not provided. |
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Total |
/50 |
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Instructor’s Comments: |
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